Thank you for sharing an alternate point of view. It’s awesome to read. I just felt like the Batgirl section was written like an episode of Melrose Place. Very poor dialogue and so the way she was treated didn’t come across as bold or daring but annoying. However, I can see how you would see it differently. Things like the total cliche gay best friend bothered me and the time of the month line felt very lame to me. Not that people don’t say stupid things like that but when it comes from a character that is one note it comes off as very lazy writing. I have now read the comic and I still think the meat of the story is way underserved here. I didn’t love the comic but a lot of its best parts are given little to no time in return for sappy, cliched dialogue I didn’t care about.
But again that’s just me. I appreciate others can have a different opinion on it. Thanks for sharing yours.

The original comic in my opinion is good but not as good as some people make it out to be. There is a meaning to the book of the Jokers one bad day, but it’s only really mentioned once or twice but is just central to the story and I feel it’s just as evident in the film as it is in the comic, I just feel like the difference is that people analyse what they read more than they watch. Sure the Joker doesn’t have much screen time with Batman but he strikes him where he feels it will hurt him the most his friends, and Gordon is the easiest to get to, after all he has no clue how to get at robin or batgirl (he attacks Barbara not Batgirl). The whole one bad day is explored further with the flashbacks to one of the jokers possible origins, however I feel between the flashbacks and the batgirl section, too much focus is taken off of the main story.

As for the Batgirl section, I liked it as well, the two sections definitely feel separate but I like that they gave Barbara a bigger role. The Killing Joke is a huge moment in the history of the character and she is barely even in it, Barabar is permanently paralysed from this event (although recent retcons make the paralysis temporary) not to mention the emotional scars this left her with, the character frequently referring to the story in future comics, yet she is brushed over in the comic itself. The film decided to showcase the transformation from batgirl to oracle and to do this they needed to showcase her as batgirl at the films out, although they probably only needed one or two scenes to do this, they opted to give her her own story.

I personally didn’t have much of a problem with Batgirl having a crush on Batman, it’s been explored before in the DC Animated Universe with hints in The New Batman Adventures, Batman Beyond and Mystery of the Batwoman, all projects that Bruce Timm and this films voice cast worked on, so even though this film isn’t set in that universe, it just kinda seemed to fit. As to the whole fatherly relationship they have, I think people are getting her mixed up with Robin, Barbara was inspired to fight crime by the Batman and made a costume in his image to fight crime, eventually Batman allowed her to fight alongside him and Robin, but they were always more partners rather than mentor/protege. Like in the film, she wasn’t his sidekick to which batman responds that they are partners, just not equals. Sure he’s mentored her to some degree but not enough for it to that weird, I mean it’s a little weird but not that weird in my opinion. What I always thought was weird is that she dated Robin/Nightwing and then goes and dates Batman, who is basically his father, so I found it weird that she dates her exes dad, but a previous relationship with Dick is not established within this film so i can’t presume they ever dated.

As for the way everyone treats Barbara, I think it’s unfair for people to be saying that it’s not how a woman should be portrayed, because it’s not how she’s being portrayed, it’s how the mysoginistic characters around her are being portrayed, people do say things like “time of the month” so I see no reason why the film should sugarcoat how the society we live in is still really sexist. I also don’t see the way the bad guy objectifying her is writing a weak female character, he’s the bad guy, he’s not going to be nice, he can be sexist, or racist or homophobic or just disrespectful to anything for that matter because we are supposed to dislike him, he’s not a nice guy and isn’t going to do nice things, I mean he kills people, I see no problem with him objectifying Batgirl. I hardly think this is how the producers of the film encourage guys to treat women.

As for the art and animation the film was pretty dark but you could argue that since it’s primarily at night it’s not too unjust but also the colouring is based off of the Deluxe Edition of the Killing Joke which is where the original artist went back and coloured the book how he imagined, and it was all very quite dark (the original comic is quite bright) and I feel this is the creators of the film paying respect to that to keep it as close to his vision as possible, possibly due to the fact that they had already changed the art style to a more simplified, animated look. As for the animation itself, you’re right, nothing too amazing, although I did like the Joker’s laugh after his transformation in the flashbacks, but I felt like at times the animation was nice and fluid, and I don’t feel like it ever felt too stiff. To be fair to The Killing Joke, the budget for this was low when compared to Mask of the Phantasm which was a theatrical feature with a theatrical budget, this was just a DTV movie that happened to get a limited thaeatrical release.

The two things don’t go as well together as they maybe should but I think the reason for this is that they wanted to stay faithful to the comic and so there is an immediate shift in story once they begin that section so not to dilute the adaption. I don’t really like it but I can live with it, the film was good in my opinion and I’ll definitely rewatch it, but I can understand why people don’t like it.

PS. Sorry about the long comment, I just had a lot to share, thanks ?

I think it’s mainly because comic book movies rarely seem to have any actual women involved in their production. When you don’t have any women directors or script writers, and you’re trying to target something to a female audience, you’re going to have a limited understanding of the expectations women have for female superhero characters. Have you seen the DC animated Wonder Woman movie they released a few years ago on DVD? It has its own issues but I think it’s a lot better than this movie and you might enjoy it more. You can find it pretty cheap now. I actually got it for $5 at Big Lots. It’s ironic the Adam West Batman was much more forward thinking with female superheroes than a movie made in 2016. But it was the Adam West Batgirl that turned me into a Batgirl fan in the first place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PZpsxK4vPI

Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely check it out.

Since you’ve already seen Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, I’d recommend Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. It also has these three voice actors in their respective roles (somewhat). Justice League: Gods and Monsters is also definitely worth a watch.

You could certainly have Batman with a younger woman or Batgirl with an older man but the way that it is handled feels icky. He’s teaching her and has no emotional connection with her, so it just feels weird

She’s pretty much his superhero daughter remember it’s called the Batfamily for a reason, so this feels incestuous in a metaphorical way. While as their civilian identities, Barbara is the daughter of one of Bruce’s best friends, so it’s creepy there too because you’re making love to the kid you saw growing up while you were palling with her dad.

Yep. I agree with you 100%. It definitely ended up feeling creepy instead of sexy.

I really shouldn’t get into this as I know nothing about these things but as outriders perspective, what’s wrong with batgirl falling for Bruce? (Apart from it being forced.) People sometimes step out of one sort of relationship into another, why is that, “Ew?” I’ve heard Batman is a mentor to batgirl, almost like a dad, but so far as I know he didn’t adopt her. If he did adopt her I agree, ew indeed.

I was so disappointed in this film. When it was all over I was so bummed. It may have even been a fairly decent adaptation, but its glaring issues ruined it for me. Overall I have to agree with all of Rachel’s criticisms. But let me harp on one which ruined the film for me. I am all for people expressing themselves and participating in “adult activities”. But not the two characters in this instance. I love Batman, but homeboy broke the cardinal (bat) rule of being a mentor, you never engage in horizontal hugs with those you mentor. It was so frustrating to see. Barbara and Bruce (#BRUBARA) are like a father and daughter team, and should have never had went “there”. It was awkward to watch and bummed me out. Batman became the Woody Allen of the DC universe. I wish we could have a “Do over”, but given that this is already out I am going to have to just do my best to get over it. Go read the comic.